If you live in Utah and watch the local news you've probably heard about "The List." Unless you watch the news on ksl 5 and Keith McCord happens to be anchoring, then I'm sure you have no idea what I'm talking about because you can't tear your eyes off Keith's dreamy mustache.
But if you watch the news on a mustache-free station, you must know what "The List" is. It's a list of names, phone numbers and addresses of alleged illegal immigrants living in Utah. It was sent to news stations and political leaders throughout Salt Lake City.
I don't usually have opinions about "important" stuff like this- ask me who should have won American Idol and I'll give you a detailed and intelligent response, but when it comes to immigration?
Shoulders get shrugged.
But as I read some of the comments about this story I started forming my own opinion, and my mind grapes began to ripen.
I've come to the conclusion that the majority of Utahns hate illegal immigrants and feel like they need to get kicked back to wherever they came from. They applaud and praise the people behind "The List" and think the law enforcement officials need to act fast in finding these aliens and encourage all other Utahns, if they are true Americans, to report anyone they think might be here illegally.
My opinion, just like the shape of my eyes and funny sounding last name, is definitely in the minority.
I know from experience how hard it is to come to this country legally. My husband is an immigrant (a legal one) and it took him over a year, and thousands of dollars to finally get his visa.
I also know several people with boat loads of money, clean backgrounds, and beautiful smiles who have tried over ten times to get visas, but get turned down each time, just because the visa interviewer wasn't in a good mood that day.
A lot of people say, we'll welcome you, just come here legally!
I don't think people realize just how difficult and expensive it is to come here legally.
You could save up your money for years and years and finally have enough for all the documents and paperwork, but then there's an interview process and most people get told no.
So if someone with great wealth can't even get into this country legally, how is someone with no worldly possessions at all supposed to get in?
THEY CAN'T!
It's IMPOSSIBLE!
Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.
What happened to that mentality? I guess liberty has an expiration date.
America no longer welcomes the poor. If they did, coming here legally would be free of charge.
Think back to when your ancestors came to this country. Were they wealthy diamond mine owners who wanted to come to America because they were so sick of living in their many castles and bored of riding their solid gold ponies?
Probably not.
They probably sold everything they owned to start their new life here in America.
The people who came here, your family who came here, just wanted a better life.
The same thing is happening today.
These immigrants just want a better life.
Who are we to say, too bad so sad, get lost!
If you were living in a country stricken with poverty and were watching your children starve to death wouldn't you do just about anything to try and make their lives better?
If you saw hope, freedom, success and happiness just over the fence wouldn't you want to hop it?
You know it's illegal, you know it's wrong, but it's the only way.
So, you just go. You take a risk for your family, and you go.
Does that make you a criminal?
When you read Les Miserables do you hate Jean Valjean for stealing that loaf of bread? Are you glad that he went to prison? He stole some bread to feed his family.
He ends up being the hero of the story, not the villain.
Yes, I know, it's against the law, it's illegal
But there are a lot of crazy laws out there that I don't think are such big deals and need to be changed.
Did you know in Alaska it's against the law to look at a moose from an airplane?
That's just ridiculous.
And so is not letting people come to America unless they pay their entire life savings to the government.
Frankly I'm flattered people are risking their lives and coming here illegally; it just shows what an awesome country this is.
Sunday, July 18, 2010
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I agree with you 100%, Mary. Thank you for much for this post.
thank you for much = thank you so much
you commented on my sister-in-law's blog and now i'm commenting on yours.
i loved this post, thank you for stating our opinion, even if it is the minority. reading your opinion makes me feel more normal because i completely, 100 percent, absolutely agree with you.
I agree with you, for the most part. It shouldn't cost 1000s of dollars and it shouldn't be up to a the whim of an interviewer. There should be a straight forward, fair immigration policy in place. Unfortunately, there is not.
This is an amazing country to live in, we are blessed and lucky to be here. I know this and I'm grateful. However, that doesn't make it ok to break the law. The law sucks, it needs to be changed. It's still not ok to break the law.
Just this last week a car bomb went off on the border between the US and Mexico. Car bombs, intimidation, violence, and terror shouldn't be part of life! I totally understand why people want to get out of there. We need reform for immigration, now, to help people who are truly coming to the US for a better life. Yesterday would be better, but that's not possible.
Circulating a list of names is wrong. Period. It's not fair. It's not the job of news media to out an illegal immigrant. It's the job of government to find people here illegally, find out why, and send them home. Not because we're mean, not because we don't want to share what we have, but because that is the way it works right now.
Fortunately we live in a country that can change things through the voice of the people. Getting the people to speak up and right the wrongs ... well, that's another story.
Amazing my friend. Good call.
Thanks for agreeing with me guys, I had no idea so many of you were so passionate about a mustache.
Amen!
Mary, you said it! I agree completely. And I think the number of people who share your opinion is larger than you think.
I think The List makers are those with lots of money who WANT us to think that the majority believe this way, then the mustache dude brainwashes us into thinking if we disagree, we are a minority of mustache-free, illegal alien lovers. And I would bet lots of others agree with you too!
oh, the mustache is precisely the thing I am agreeing with you about. that thing is steamy!
honestly I have no idea what you're talking about in regards to the mustache or the list, but I AGREE WITH YOU ABOUT IMMIGRATION! You put your thoughts into words beautifully. I get goosebumps when I think about my ancestors coming to America and I'm so grateful they were able to. Other people should have the same opportunity... it SHOULD be easier to come to our country legally. Were our nation to allow that, I know we would benefit greatly from the amount of talent, hard work ethic and intelligence that would come to our country in the form of immigrants, just like we did 150 years ago. Right now we're shutting a lot of that out and becoming stupider as a result.
I totally agree with you too. While I lived in Utah, it was a huge eye-opener to me to find out how un-welcoming people are of illegal immigrants. When I was going to BYU there was this big deal about a new "English only" law were they were going to stop publishing things in Spanish, like driver's lisence tests. The thing that made it so ironic for me at the time was that my husband who didn't know a lot of English yet, but who had (legally) immigrated from Ukriane, was working temporary jobs in factories (fish food, bagels, laundry detergent, mouse pads, dry soup etc..) in Utah Valley, and most of the people he worked with were illegal immigrants, so it seemed like a lot of Utah's industry was supported by illegal and underpaid labor, and at the same time people were trying to make life harder for them by not letting the get a driver's license before they learned English.
I might be repeating something some other lucky commenter has said, but I can't be sure because I am too lazy to read their comments.
My biggest problem with the whole thing is the immigration process I think, which you touched on nicely. I don't think they should be here illegally and living on food stamps and not paying taxes when everyone else has to jump through crazy hoops just to keep their visas current. It isn't fair. So why is the process of getting a visa so hard? If they have made it nearly impossible to come to this country legally, can they really be surprised when people choose to come illegally? If I am selling some seriously delicious cupcakes for $500 dollars a piece, can I really be surprised when people steal all my cupcakes every time my back is turned, and I never make any money?
Boy, I sure am good at making up awesome analogies. I think that instead of trying to keep them out, maybe we should make it easier for them to get in so that everyone who is here could be here legally.
If you think we Utahns are bad, you should try living in Arizona!
It is really hard to come into the United States legally - especially if you are from Mexico, or another country with SO many people applying for visas everyday.
I truly understand why so many do come here illegally. I've lived in a third world country - I can empathize with the need to escape to a land with such a promise of opportunity and freedom.
I think the frustration for a lot of people is that they think the "illegals" get welfare, get medicaid, get all sorts of state aid.
However, I get MORE frustrated with people who think anyone who speaks spanish is an "illegal" and assume all illegals get state assistance.
Whoever it was from DWS who made up that "list" obviously never understood what their job was really about.
P.S. I love your blog and don't know you at all. :)
Mary!! I hear you!! I think the list is horrible! It is something about Arizona and Utah!! I guess they just like to see white people. My husband said that he always felt like a "well dressed monkey" in utah. Why does it have to be so freaking hard to get into this country? My husband spent more time doing paper work to get his green card than the cheerleading team spent putting in their bump it's!! Seriously!!
Mary, Keith McCord is hot. Don't Diss the Stache.
I feel bad that it is so hard to become a citizen here. It's really not fair. I do however have arguments for both sides of the coin. the food stamps, welfare, and medicaid issue is what gets to me. There are those who cheat the system. The thing about the Arizona law that most people don't understand is that the cops don't go out "hunting" down what they think are illegals, if they are breaking the law or get pulled over, etc.. they look up the status. I personally don't see anything wrong with that. They are enforcing the federal law, which means if you are in the country but not a citizen, you need to have papers. Why are we the only country in the world that allows people to come into this country without showing ANY type of papers?? There needs to be a law like that in place. It's the same thing with me and my kids. If I give one a cookie, I have to give all three a cookie. I can't just pick and choose. There has to be a set way to do it. Unfortunately people see that as racism, or us being unfair. I think our country is great because we aren't one race. We have all differnt types of people here to make us who we are. I have no problem with anyone wanting to live in America. But when I see them here, and not being proud to be American, that makes me upset. I think its great to have pride for whatever country you are from, but if you live in America, you should have pride for our country as well. Like I said, I think heritage is great, and you should never forget where you came from.
There is going to be a lot of debate on this in the future. It's the new "thing" to talk about. I do enjoy seeing it from both sides though Mary, and I appreciate your opinions and insight.
Sorry for the Novel!!!
The United States doesn't really "allow" you to get in without papers, people just do it anyway, illegally. But try coming here legally and you'll have to cut down an entire forest just to fill out all those stinking documents.
I know you shouldn't try to justify breaking the law but the law needs to be changed, drastically.
If immigrating to America was as difficult and expensive 200 years ago as it is now, then nobody would be here.
I just feel like if their only crime was coming into this country illegally, then just give them a warning, tell them not to do it again, and let them go on living their American dream. Don't deport them. The punishment should fit the crime, and I don't think crossing the boarder without permission is such a heinous crime.
I just hate how we only welcome the rich. Even if you're just coming to America to visit. If your coming from a developed nation like Japan or countries in Europe, you don't need a visa, just show them your rich-country passport at the border and they say, come on in. No paperwork, fees or interviews, just come in and spend your money in our malls. But if you're visiting from say, China, you better be prepared. When my in-laws came to visit they had to go to an interview and bring anything they could to prove that they were wealthy: car titles, bank statements, anything that proves you will for sure return to your home country once your visit is over.
But what's so horrible about someone from another country visiting America, falling in love with it and wanting to stay?
Why can't they?
Why aren't they given the opportunity?
All of our ancestors were given that opportunity. They didn't have to show how rich they were.
What happened?
Why have things changed?
I would have to agree that the legalization process should be easier for immigrants and a lot less expensive especially since many come here with almost nothing.
However, I lived in AZ for 18 years and UT for 4 and one would be ignorant to say the place is not full of illegals. They shear number but a big burden on the state and the taxpayers. They go to our schools, our hospitals, and don't pay a dime.
I wish the gov't would look at it this way-- legalize the illegal people that are here and the ones that want to come here so they can legally find work and pay taxes. That makes so much more sense to me than spending millions of dollars on trying to keep them out, catch/arrest them, and send them back to their country.
The problem with letting them continue to live here illegally is that it does not fix the problem. They're still here---and I realize becoming a legal citizen is incredibly difficult, and maybe that should be updated, but it's still possible. Many of the illegals that are here are not trying to become legal---they came here illegally and they'll stay here illegally unless kicked out. I know it sounds harsh, but the illegals are a huge problem and this list is somehow making them the victims, when they are the ones who are breaking the law.
For anyone who has Netflix, I recommend watching "30 Days." Season 2, episode 1 has a great piece on this issue. It helped me to see both sides of the issue much more clearly.
I live in California and I've always kind of resented illegal immigration. Thanks for making me think.
Mary, I have nothing but respect and admiration for the many (probably the majority) of illegal immigrants who come here and work their butts off to provide for themselves and their families--and often family members still living in other countries. I can't understand how anyone could fail to respect that. I also wish that all the people complaining about it could get a taste of what we would have to pay for goods and services if all the labor in this country was performed by "legal" workers. I do, however, take issue with those who come into this country illegally and then choose to engage in less than honest work.
Oh, and I forgot to mention, my girls and I got a great laugh over the story of your brother getting baptized in his ewok underwear!
You can also watch that episode of "30 Days" online at hulu.com.
It's pretty thought provoking.
I love you so much. That's just how I feel too.
Because unless you come from a hogan, you don't get to be an a-hole about this whole thing. Says I.
Or AND...
Presence of Immigrants Still Correlates to Low Crime! Take THAT!
And if you don't feel like making clicky over to that link, I'll just quote:
"If you really crunch some numbers, you find that the states with the most "illegal immigrants" actually have the lowest per capita incidences of violent crime. (Now Philly: that's a place you don't want to be.) Even when you look at a longer time period than year-over-year, you see that Arizona has 15% less violent crime overall since 2006. This makes the insane ramblings of anti-immigration folks all the more annoying—especially because most of them are probably Irish people whose parents came here and took a job away from some real white person."
Thank you for your post. Like a few posters mentioned, I too have lived in other third world countries and seen the complete lack of opportunity that many people experience.
If an individual is a "bad guy" and creating problems, I agree, he or she should not get the opportunity to remain in this country. Otherwise, let's figure out a way to document, tax, keep track of etc. all individuals, including those who come here from other places in search of a better life.
In response to Greg and Mel, the Arizona law actually requires police to check the status of anyone with whom they have contact - not only individuals suspected of a crime, but this would include a witness to a car accident, a rape victim, an individual wanting to turn in the neighborhood drug dealer etc. I understand why people in Arizona are so fearful and hope Utah lawmakers will show a little more restraint when crafting any type of immigration law.
In response to the complaint that illegal immigrants do not pay taxes, numerous studies have shown that many do, in fact, pay taxes, they just receive no credit. According to one govenment study done in 2008, it was estimated that about $9 billion dollars worth of tax was paid by illegals. http://ezinearticles.com/?Do-Illegal-Immigrants-Pay-Taxes?&id=4572895
None of these individuals received any type of credit for those taxes. Through my work I have seen numerous examples of this.
I don't condone "illegal" activity, but equally don't condone cruel and dehumanizing behavior. Let's remember that "illegal", "undocumented", or whatever label you want to place, these are human beings, and should be treated as such.
AMEN! I know nothing of this "list" since I no longer live in Utah (but I appreciate the reminder of the mustache) but I have to come out of lurking status to say I am an open door immigration policy person and nothing gets my blood boiling faster than the fear and xenophobia hiding behind all the anti-illegal immigration platforms. I could go on and on and on but this isn't my blog so I'll just leave it with this: Thanks for your perspective, I completely agree.
A statement from the LDS church on illegal immigration:
"Finding a successful resolution will require the best thinking and goodwill of all across the political spectrum, the highest levels of statesmanship and the strongest desire to do what is best for all of God's children."
Entire article
here
They want what is best for ALL OF GOD'S CHILDREN!
What's best for the illegal immigrants? Sending them back to a violent country where the children practice shootout drills in case their school is ever in the crossfire of gun violence?
Don't think so.
Immigration is such a difficult issue and people get so passionate about it. Sometimes I think people forget that immigrants are actual human beings. It's sad.
I haven't read everyone's comments (I guess I'll have to save that for a different after-midnight online reading time) but I agree with you and also with the 4th commenter, Sarah, that it should NOT be so hard to immigrate. I do believe in upholding the law but think the law needs improving, and also think that since immigration law has not been enforced for so long, it's not fair to suddenly start rounding people up. Just start implementing the existing laws with people caught in crime, etc., and meanwhile try to improve the laws so that immigration is not so costly and difficult, but so that immigrants are still expected to behave as responsible new citizens.
I have always loved you. But I love you more now. Thank you. The inscription on the statue of Liberty keeps running through my mind too. I also keep thinking about the lists of Jews, and my heart hurts.I keep wondering if I am brave enough to blog about this and risk the loss of people I considered my friends. You are brave and oh so very right.
I wonder, if God told the LDS here in Utah that the "illegals" are actually the ten tribes, I wonder what they would say then?
I've never been able to articulate how I feel about this subject, and you just did it--right down to the ripening mind grapes and Jean Valjean.
Amen, sister. Amen.
There are many good people on both sides of this. I'm afraid that if the Government doesn't step in to start a solution to this problem, there will be more and more vigilantes (what does the government expect, when they state themselves that there is a problem yet avoid the issue) which in turn causes racial tension between illegal and legal immigrants. It seems that being a Mexican puts a big target on your back, no matter how you came here, legal or illegal. It's a big mess.....
what do I know though, I'm French.
Thank you for creating this post!!! I agree 100% with you on this issue. The whole idea of this country was to provide liberty and freedom for all, but apparantly now that means only if you are able to pay the exhorbitant fees for that liberty, and if some random government employee likes you or not. Its beyond disgusting.
Well said.
Due to the fact that illegal immigrants are coming here to work hard and build better lives for themselves and their loved ones, wouldn't it make more sense to "legalize" them as fast as possible and then tax the crap out of all of their hard earned paychecks just like the government does to us? I mean, if financial drain and strain is a "huge" part of the problem, I think that would be one quick way to eliminate it.
I LOVE the LDS Church's statement and couldn't agree more. What decent person would want innocent little children and families sent back to war-torn, cartel-run countries? There's enough room for everybody. Period.
I worked for an immigration law firm, and you are right on the money-- no pun intended. Even WITH the help of expensive lawyers, sometimes the process is so convoluted and costly that even the rich/educated immigrants can't get everything done "legally" (INS loses paperwork, interminable "delays", etc.)
The flaw is in the immigration system to be sure. Regardless of people's opinions about immigrants who are already here, anyone with any knowledge of the current system would have to agree it DOES NOT work.
People are thinking of those from Mexico when they think unlawful (ill eagle is a sick bird) immigration and get so mad about it. My stepdad is from Switzerland. It took a year for him to get the papers all correct. Then, after that they said no. He and my mom had been married close to 20 years and had lived in Switzerland all of that time. They thought he married just to come to America, 20 whole years ago. What a conspiracy!! My mom and her husband are so smart :) My husband and I "sponsored" him. The rules were strict. Our house had to be so big, our income had to include 2 more people, yada, yada, yada. He had a year to get health insurance. He had preexisting conditions so he couldn't find a company who would cover him. BUT......... the one thing they did not do was to check his background. He could have been a terrorist. This was in 2004, I think. Not one of the phone numbers we supplied were called. They just saw we had a big house, money to help them, and said GO. This was after 9/11. We thought they would do a hefty background check on us and him. Nope. They ended up moving back to Switzerland 3 years later because of insurance. He worked for two years to become legal on his own. He didn't want us to be in jeopardy since we were his sponsors. He didn't come for the "American Dream" as he has Doctorate Degrees, money, speaks 5 languages and such. He would have been a very productive citizen. He has lived in America before on two different occasions. I watched him do it right. And he still had a hard time. There are more people trying to do the right thing than people think. A difference from those who "hop the fence" is that some of them have money. But money doesn't buy you much. We told him that while he was trying to do it legal we would just have them move from house to house (relatives) when they caught up with them at one house. But he wouldn't do that. He went the proper channels. And now he is back living the Swiss Dream. Not fair.
My husband is in Law Enforcement if anyone wondered about the sick bird comment. He corrects people and says unlawful :)
we are so lucky to live in america. i hate that it's so hard for ppl to relocate here for a better life. if my great-grandparents had been turned away then i don't know where i'd be!
I so agree with you, Mary! Utah is very, very intolerant of anything that is different. That is why I'm so glad I don't live there anymore. Sad to say that the state with the most Mormons, is the most judgemental and intolerant place I've ever been.
I really like reading your point of view and I agree. I wish we could weed out the people you are talking about and the one's who are just here to mooch off of the government so they don't have to work. Because both are out there.
I hope your friends can get their visa's soon.
People sure feel passionate about this topic Mary...and I for one, need to mention that: I personally, have seen moose from an airplane in ALASKA. It's true!
I totally agree. I have my concerns, what my anscetors did is not that same as today (as in, they came to a land, not a country...), but.... I KNOW what I would do as a momma for my kids, so I have to agree.
Oh Mary this touched my heart. I remember thinking a few years ago: If America is really built on the ideas of hard work, giving our all, and making the next generation better, I can't think of a group that that does this better than immigrants-especially Hispanic ones. How many people who are anti-immigration would be willing to work as hard as their ancestors did to get them where they are now?
Personally I think many "Americans" have forgotten what it means to be an American. It's not a racial thing. You don't inherit it-you live it. That's why the founding of this country still inspires me. People were welcome regardless of their race, heritage or economic status because there was a belief that their determination would build this country up...and it did. Why are we so quick to turn that away now?
Hey Mary! So I'm not really going to comment on this post I just wanted to say hi so you know I'm reading your blog again. I was a faithful reader way back before your blog was deleted that one time and then you ran off to China and stopped blogging. Well, I stopped getting your feeds and just plain forgot about you. (no offense of course) For whatever reason I remembered you the other day and one little google search later found you again. So glad that you are back and that I found you again!
Mary, I just stumbled across your blog and I wanted to thank you for your post about immigration. Your thoughts and the additional comments have restored some of my faith in humanity.
On one hand, given the sense of threat that the government likes to emphasize, I have a hard time saying, "Mr. Obama open the borders, tear down the fences, and never background checks required for anyone!"
On the other hand, I agree that immigration shouldn't be restrict those with no worldy possessions. I firmly believe that immigration reform on such matters is urgently needed. Our country is proud of its foundation of those huddling poor who were seeking freedom and security, and we should still embrace that that class of people regardless of their native country.
Thank you for sharing your opinion passionately and intelligently.
There are no easy answers to this and I won't pretend to know any of them. However, I once listened as a woman explained in church how the Lamanites are the ones who are supposed to make the desert (of America) blossom like a rose and that they belong here and it's theirs. I tend to agree with her, even should said Lamanites come from Mexico illegally.
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